Four of the 8 seats in Virgin America’s first class section (Photo: Chris McGinnis)
Last week Virgin America CEO David Cush made an off-hand remark about the carrier’s first class seats during an earnings call that turned into a Bloomberg headline and story.
What followed was an unexpected tidal wave of commentary (most of it derisive) about the carrier’s strategy and its future.
I know that there are many Virgin America regulars among TravelSkills readers– some of whom fly up front. It would be great to hear what you all think in the comments below!
Here’s the headline:
And here’s David Cush’s quote:
And now for a sampling of the chatter on Twitter, Facebook and elsewhere.
Rafat Ali, who runs travel website Skift, chimed in with this:
Here’s what travel analyst Henry Harteveldt of Atmosphere Research had to say in a post on Airways News:
“It is great that other airlines are finally investing in product on these routes and following our lead, but we believe our First Class product can go head to head with anyone out there in the U.S. – and our continued [per seat] premium in the most competitive routes in the nation (like LAX-JFK and SFO-JFK) shows that. In addition, as David [Cush] mentioned, we have a very different First Class product, in that it is an exclusive 8-seat cabin and we have that experience on ALL our flights, as opposed to a tiny percentage of a fleet…And as David noted, for day-time flying, which is what we mainly do, at present, most people want a really comfortable seat, not necessarily a lie flat. All of that said, we are not standing still on product. The recent comments have been taken a bit out of context, as we’re continually updating our product with smaller enhancements…”
American Airlines’ brand new A321T now on SFO-JFK – Trip Report
The most unusual Virgin breakfast
Trip Report: JetBlue Mint class [photos]
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Wish I could fly Jet Blue. They use to have regular Washington Dulles to Long Beach and Oakland flights. I changed from United to Jet Blue but they stopped those flights a year and a half ago. Now I have to connect to a New York or Boston flight, not worth the extra four hours, the hassle and gives more reason to have something go wrong and get screwed on getting to your destination. So it’s back to United.
Airlines are just following demand. Most people want cheapest seats at any cost, comfort be damned, so there’s no incentive for airlines to go back to the 2-3 layout which would be much more expensive. (Also, the last popular airframe designed for 2-3 was the MD80, and that thing is fuel-inefficient.) And business travelers are willing to spend $2K+ for JFK-LAX, so why charge less?
The issue with TOD and mile upgrade scarcity is strictly a United (and Delta) thing as they try to squeeze out every last dollar, elites be screwed. As a mid-tier elite on American, I’ve scored a number of free upgrades on their transcons, and as long as you’re not flying on a peak day getting a 15K mile upgrade is quite easy. It probably won’t last, but your beef lies especially with UA, who is screwing over their elites as much as they can.
In any case, the only airline trying to play the game differently is JetBlue, whose Mint seats are much cheaper. Consider supporting them. Or, fly with a stopover — you can then get a domestic F seat for much less.
I never said anything about recliner seats. The first class seats on Virgin, which honestly is not worth much in the world of better first class and business class seats would be perfect for those in-between coach and first class/recliner seats.
All I am saying is that airlines have gone in the opposite way of making flying worthwhile. I would love to fly something that is comfortable, like five across seating instead of six so that the seat is wider and that the average person isn’t infringing on their neighbors seat. What the trend became was that airlines like United would have this first class section and depended on frequent flyer status they would just give the seat away to frequent flyer if not sold. Also five years ago it was easier to upgrade with just 10,000 miles on long flights with frequent flyer miles. Now with mergers and more flyers it’s impossible to first upgrade to first class/Business because even those seats are too expensive. And with so many flyers it’s impossible to get a free upgrade. But the topper is on flights from New York to San Francisco first class/business is over $2,000 which is too much.
So I also love reclining seats but would say if for $800 can fly on Virgin seats that are wider I would do it in a New York second.
That’s exactly what JetBlue Mint is, although the lowest prices are a bit more — around $1,200-$1,500.
I suppose you’re asking for recliner seats at slightly lower prices? It’s entirely possible, as domestic First on legacy carriers with a stopover costs around ~$550 ow.
As much as I love VX, the lack of lie-flat seats is the reason that I don’t fly them on transcon trips. I need to go to IAD soon and chose to fly a 777-200 on United which offers a lie-flat business class. On the other hand, I fly to SEA monthly to see family and VX is the way to go. VX doesn’t have my complete loyalty because of that. And Chris, I can’t wait to try a Mint flight.
My dream would be to have what is first class on virgin expanded, with coast to coast service with a round trip price of around 800 to $1,000. This is a civil way of flying and worth double over regular coach. The big question, would people pay a thousand dollars for round trip to make flying more civilized???
All good points! Thanks, J! –chris and yes, I took a Mint flight last December– the link is at the bottom of the post. –chris
You can look at that both ways… by that argument, 20% of their seats are on redeyes. 😉
Hey J- they have one out of, I think five flights per day that is a redeye on both SFO and LAX to JFK.
I’ve flown first on VX and business on AA many times. If you’re an elite, AA (and the other airlines) are far superior, because they a) have more extra legroom economy seats which you can pick for free; b) have more business class seats, which give a better opportunity for upgrades; c) complimentary upgrades, which you can’t on VX. So, I don’t see elites moving to VX at this point.
Personally, I think VX’s whole plane is fairly old and tired at this point. The screens are smaller than the competition and leather seats are actually poor for a transcontinental product, since you tend to sweat in it more compared to fabric seats. In terms of F, the seats are pretty comfortable but nothing to write home about, IMO. It’s one step up from domestic F on most carriers, but only slightly (except for the catering, perhaps).
However, in terms of the “kettle” experience — people who don’t have elite programs — VX is probably still a better experience. They have younger and more consistent FAs, a cooler vibe, competitive prices, and better seat selection for non-elites. Since they only have 8 first class seats, a majority of their revenues doesn’t come from F, so as long as they pack their planes in, that’s all that counts.
In any case, I’ve heard that JetBlue puts /every other product/ on this market to shame. You took that flight, right?
I think there’s enough demand on these markets for one non-lie-flat experience. I don’t think VX has the resources, nor the business opportunities, to maintain a subfleet for just SFO/LAX-JFK.
Chris: based on what data? VX has a daily redeye for SFO-JFK, just like AA. (They used to have two, perhaps that’s what you’re referring to.)
I have Elevate Gold status with Virgin and usually take the SFO – BOS redeye once a month. At this point I fly exclusively on Virgin and when possible go first class. I don’t think improving upon the first class experience and getting lie flat seats is as important to me as having Virgin expand the number of flights or increasing the number of first class seats in the cabin
Thanks, Steve…one thing about Virgin is that they don’t do much redeye flying, which negates much of the need for lie flat –chris
I may be in the minority but I like the virgin seats far better then the lie flat seats for anything other then an overnight flight. I actually find the lie flat seats to be a little uncomfortable for things like working, reading or watching a movie. If you are taking an overnight flight there is nothing better then a lie flat but for everything else I actually find the other seats more comfortable.