Qatar Airways plans to use a 777-200LR on its Atlanta route. (Image: Darren Koch/Wikimedia Commons)
With the June 1 start of its Atlanta-Doha non-stops rapidly approaching, Qatar Airways is drawing some new venom from Delta.
Delta and other big U.S. international carriers have been engaged in a war of words with the Big Three Middle Eastern airlines for months over the latter’s ambitious route expansion into U.S. gateways. Claiming that their Mideastern rivals are dumping excess capacity into this market, the U.S. companies have also mounted a lobbying campaign urging the U.S. Government to block that expansion.
The latest salvo came from Delta President Glen Hauenstein during an earnings call with analysts this week. According to a report in Forbes, Hauenstein charged that there’s no way Qatar can make money on the Atlanta-Doha route, claiming that passenger demand between those two cities is fewer than five people a day, not counting connecting traffic.
The U.S. legacy airlines contend that Middle Eastern carriers like Qatar, Emirates and Etihad don’t need to make a profit on their operations because they are subsidized by their governments.
Business class on Qatar’s 777-200, now flying to Los Angeles. (Image: Qatar Airways)
If Delta is right about traffic levels between ATL and Qatar, there are some clear benefits for business travelers. For one thing, a lack of demand means fares should be relatively low. Currently, fares for June roundtrip flights between ATL and Doha are running about $1,250 for economy and $4,800 in business class. Flights to onward destinations in India and Africa are relatively good bargains, too.
And for another, Qatar has a frequent flyer partnership with American, so award seats on that route should be plentiful for AAdvantage members with sufficient miles.
Tip: The best way for AAdvantage members to search for award space is via partner British Airways’ online award booking tool according to the OneMileataTime blog.
Qatar Airways is on a big U.S. expansion binge this year. Besides the new Atlanta non-stops – which will use a 777-200LR – the airline kicked off new Los Angeles flights in January and recently added a second daily New York flight and new Boston non-stops.
Still no word on if or when Qatar Airways will launch nonstops to SFO— currently it is served by Emirates (A380) and Etihad (new Etihad aircraft coming this month, replacing Jet Airways). And with Air India recently adding nonstops, the SFO-Middle East-India market is pretty saturated.
Would you fly Qatar Airways to the Middle East or beyond? Why or why not? Please leave your comments below.
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There is so many advantages of Qatar airways you go on the page on Qatar airways will get many opportunities.
QR is in One World, so they already are aligned with AA. But, QR already flies to LAX, DFW, ORD, MIA, JFK, and PHL. That leaves CLT, PHX, and DCA as AA hubs that do not have QR flights. You could fly AA from those hubs to ATL and then transfer form T to E or F. But, it would be just as easy to fly to another AA hub.
I still have trouble finding where they will get enough feed from Atlanta. I don’t think ATL is a top 10 airport in terms of O&D. It’s so busy only because of the DL hub.
Actually, QR may be able to do better than it seems.
For example, Alaska, American and United allow QR, if agreements worked out, to interline nonstop from Atlanta to key western U.S. destinations that it does not serve now. It could also use ATL has a backup for peak demand on its LAX service.
Moreover, note that QR most likely will sell those economy seats via under-the-table consolidator (bucket shop) fares. Those fares target the price conscious, where number of connections and connecting times are of secondary importance. That opens up most of the U.S. and much of Canada (although not likely via an inter-line agreement with AC).
Qatar would lack nonstop interlining opportunities to Las Vegas and Orlando that are two natural markets for it. I wonder if QR holds rights to continue from ATL to ORL, with of course no local service?
I am curious to see how this route will work for QR. DL would not be flying so many international routes if it wasn’t for the ability to easily connect many people through their ATL hub. QR will have very minimal non-local feed since AA only serves ATL from its hubs. So, QR will have to rely on those 5 people per day who want to go to DOH and those who want to travel onward from DOH. It seems difficult for QF to be able to fill a 777 with enough people who would make this route profitable.
I know a lot of people do still fly DL frequently and chase status every year, complaining about it the whole time. Meanwhile, a friend of ours flew Etihad with no status and raved about the experience. Seriously, it was six months ago and we still hear about it every time we get on a US carrier. Maybe there is something to be learned there. I do believe there may be an advantage for the state-owned airlines, but good service (without having to earn status for it) should be a staple. Stop running up record profits by hounding flyers with fees that should be part of the operating expenses, and complaining about the great service other carriers are offering. Let’s try earning record profits by treating customers so well that they’ll want to fly with you, regardless. Much easier to complain about the other guys than actually up your game.
I redeemed AAdvantage miles for two seats in business ATL-DOH-SIN for Fall travel with no problem. And Delta? Now way, no how, don’t bother. Despite being Atlanta based, I dropped them two years ago like a bad habit. So, now I wonder who the other three Atlanta travelers on the plane will be?
Delta’s ‘5 passengers’ quip missed the obvious observation that, minus hub flow at places like ATL and MSP (et al), Delta would itself be flying ‘5 passengers’ around on most of its flights. And minus that flow, Delta wouldn’t even serve most of its routes. You can’t dismiss hub feed for one carrier while depending on it yourself.
They have rules that seem to be primarily aimed at females, which should provide some insight. They have a reputation for keeping FA’s in high security areas, with extremely strict rules on curfew and dating, and worse for getting pregnant. My perspective is that these are adults, but Qatar seems to feel differently.
DL has hundreds of thousands of elite frequent flyers. I know of lots of folks who do mileage runs to get status on DL. Clearly, your theory that there is no reward for loyalty is completely false. With your cynical attitude, I’m fairly sure that DL is just as happy to say bye bye to you as you are to them. DL is making tons of money without you.
With its extraordinarily generous corporate bankruptcy laws, the U.S. government has allowed Delta and other major airlines based in the United States to shred massive amounts of debt and still remain in business.
To me, corporate bankruptcy has been form of subsidy not available to most airlines in the world. It has given these U.S. airlines a significant competitive advantage.
Moreover, I believe that U.S. government travelers must favor U.S. airlines, when available. This is another competitive advantage given these carriers.
Excellent airline. Chicago-Dhoa-Bangkok and return just 3 days ago. Excellent all around except for the crappy waiting area at the gate in Chicago, really not in keeping with the image and level of service evident in all other aspects of their operation.
What is wrong in the way they treat FA’s?
Hauenstein has a point though– America’s airlines can’t compete against a carrier with an explicit operating subsidy.
But I agree with you…the Big 3 thought they were being smart by building codeshare alliances that reinforced foreign countries’ need for buying lots of US made aircraft. They abdicated a whole bunch of Pan Am’s international routes across the globe…choosing instead to play a modified game of Risk, if you will, with domestic airports and routes.
Structural factors, however, have made it even tougher to convince foreign countries to buy our aircraft, And one of the best ways to achieve that is to allow even greater access to US ports of entry and hubs for our favorite customers.That’s what is working against Delta the most, I think.
Chris, sfo-auh was switched from jet to etihad metal back in march ahead of schedule.
Jetblue extensively codeshares with Emirates. Alaska too.
I am getting tired of our American airlines complaining about Qatar and Etihad. See the problem is that they can’t buy and merge with these airlines and have no competition which is becoming their business model of choice. They seem to only strive in areas of no competition and high prices. I am now getting to the point that I wouldn’t fly Delta to these places, like we are starting to realize that it’s better value to fly Premiere economy on Virgin and British instead of flying crappy coach on United.
When are these airlines going to compete with these foreign airlines instead of complaining on how much they get from their country to fly these routes.
Etihad also has a partnership with American. So Qatar is not the only 1 of the Big 3 ME carriers to partner with a US carrier.
Well I think I know who’s going to win this one and it ain’t poor, old, tired Delta.
Up against a vibrant, dynamic airline with great new aircraft, flight attendants who actually care, lounges that are a whole new world of luxury travelling, service that is impeccable and that’s just on the ground. And a FF program that actually rewards loyalty.
Then we have Delta. Tired, old, rude, flight attendants that arrived on Noah’s Arc and prancing around like they are in Mardi Gras, crappy aircraft, lounges that are not much better than a Sears cafeteria, food that is second rate and of course the greatest corporate fraud of all time in what DL call a FF program. Absolutely no reward for loyalty. Some might call it theft. I would be one of those.
Hello QR, bye bye DL.
Chris,
Does Qatar have leather seats? By the picture it looks like cloth seating with a color scheme from the 80’s. Roomy, but a bit dated-looking.
Agree with you, but SWA is the best domestic. Delta close second 🙂 (best legacy for sure)
I’ve flown Qatar to Middle East many times. Excellent flights, food, drinks, and service even in Economy. I’ve also flown United (not so good, any class).
I personally enjoy flying Emirates directly to Dubai from SFO but i would have no problem taking Qatar through Atlanta / Doha if there was a significant difference in the ticket price. I have flown Delta domestically my entire life as I think they are far and away the best American airline, however on this topic I think their complaints about the Middle Eastern carriers are just sour grapes. The U.S. airlines have most generally veered away from this lucrative market for decades and now that others are finally picking up the slack Delta wants to cry unfair. Rubbish!
Well, almost.
Singapore Air relies on one-stop flights to the US West Coast, although it experimented with a bladder busting nonstop from LAX to SIN at one point.
And in the Gulf States’ case, that makes even more sense because of how current travel demand flows from US through Europe and the Middle East and from the US through East Asia.
Absolutely 100% correct. The ME airlines are using the Singapore airline model (or really the Changi airport model). Flying to India is outrageous on a US carrier (I don’t think any go there now but not 100% sure). With the olympics possibly heading there it’s time to get the name out especially in the busiest airport in the world.
“Non-connecting traffic” is sophistry. For passengers wanting to fly to, e.g., Mumbai, ATL-DOH-BOM is a very reasonable itinerary, and Atlanta is a large enough metro area to provide some demand for ME-connecting traffic, certainly more than 5 passengers per flight, especially if there’s no competition from Emirates and Etihad.
The business model of EK, EY, QR are all about connecting traffic. Whether or not it’s profitable is a separate issue.
Still no word on if or when Qatar Airways will launch nonstops to SFO– currently it is served by Emirates (A380) and Etihad (new Etihad aircraft coming this month, replacing Jet Airways). And with Air India recently adding nonstops, the SFO-Middle East-India market is pretty saturated.
If only Delta were profitable, they could ride this out. Oh wait…
If Qatar wants to fly a plane that will be nearly empty, Delta loses pretty much nothing, and watches a hated rival lose money on the route. Delta should be pleased.
Personally, I have some reservations about flying Qatar, but that’s because of the way they treat FA’s, and really like having another option to fly, particularly to the mid east.
Chris-what is the likelihood of Qatar starting service to/from San Francisco (SFO) in the near future? Have you heard anything either way?