United E175 similar to the one used to fly Louisville-Chicago (Image: United)
FOR UPDATES: scroll to the bottom of this post>>
The internet is abuzz with chatter about a United Airlines passenger forcibly removed from a recent Chicago-Louisville flight. The videos posted by passengers onboard (below) are shocking and appalling.
Awful, yes, but here’s the deal: Passengers agree to a “contract of carriage” when buying airline tickets. Included in that contract is the airline’s right to refuse to transport you for any reason. Also included in that contract is the compensation that the government requires airlines pay passengers who are involuntarily bumped.
In a nutshell the airline does not have to pay any compensation if it can get the involuntarily bumped passenger to his/her destination within one hour of the originally scheduled arrival time. If the passenger is more than two hours late, the airline must pay 200% of the one way fare in cash as compensation. If more than four hours late, it must pay 400% of the one way fare.
It’s important to note that government rules kick on only in involuntary bumping situations. Voluntary bumping compensation is determined by the free market.
In an overbooking situation, airlines will typically ask for volunteers, as United did in this case. According to various reports, it first offered $400 to volunteers, then increased it to $800 plus pay for an overnight hotel stay, with no takers. (It appears that this was the last flight of the day between Chicago and Louisville.)
Usually this negotiation is done before the plane boards, but it appears that in this case, United boarded the plane and THEN decided to seek volunteers. When it could not find them, even at $800 + hotel, it randomly chose four passengers to be involuntarily bumped off the plane.
One of those passengers refused to get off, and here’s what happened
This video below was taken by another passenger- somehow, the passenger who was removed got back on the plane mumbling “just kill me just kill me”:
#flythefriendlyskies @united no words. This poor man!! pic.twitter.com/rn0rbeckwT
— Kaylyn Davis (@kaylyn_davis) April 10, 2017
According to various reports, United needed the seats to transport a crew to Louisville for a Monday morning flight. When one passenger refused the captain’s orders to get off, the airline called in local police to do the dirty work.
At first, United released only the following statement: “Flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked. After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation.”
After this incident lit up the internet, United CEO Oscar Munoz released a broader statement:
Here is more information about the flight from The Louisville Courier Journal
My take: As abhorrent and sickening as this video is, passengers should know what they agree to when buying an airline tickets, including the possibility of getting bumped. They also should know that when onboard a plane, the captain has the final word– his or her word is the law. If he or she tells you to get off the plane, you obey.
Could the airline crew members have handled this differently? The police? The passenger? United’s PR department? I say yes to all these questions. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out as we get more details about exactly what happened. We’ll provide updates to this post (or future posts) as they roll in… stay tuned!
What do you think? Please leave your comments below.
UPDATES Tuesday April 11:
>United CEO Oscar Munoz apologizes, promises “full review” of passenger dragging incident by April 30
>Airplanes are dictatorships (Wall Street Journal)
Scott McCartney in the Wall Street Journal
>United: Flight was “sold out” not “overbooked (USA Today)
>United stock took a tumble early Tuesday, but is creeping back up in early afternoon trading (monitor here):
CLICK for latest update
>Details emerge in Louisville about the doctor removed from the United flight –
David Dao, passenger removed from United flight, a doctor with troubled past (Louisville Post Courier)
Dragged doctor convicted of trading drugs for sex (NY Post) Also: TMZ, Heavy
A similar bumping story on Delta, which pays family 11,000 to give up seats
.
Updates: April 10:
Chicago Police statement regarding the incident:
Chicago Department of Aviation statement:
Even though it’s a PR disaster, this debacle does not appear to be a financial one- United stock closed up for the day:
United CEO Oscar Munoz letter to employees regarding the incident:
United CEO Oscar Munoz sent this letter to staff: “While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you.” pic.twitter.com/gq6L7fFX2V
— Jon Ostrower (@jonostrower) April 10, 2017
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It should be a case of first come first served! If you have booked well in advance, presented yourself at the check in counter well before the flight, had your bags tagged and loaded on the flight, why didn’t they just deny access to the latecomers? Why weren’t those who booked at the last moment simply put on stand-by and only allowed onto the flight when all the passengers with boarding passes had already checked through? Having been bumped on two separate occasions from France to SA by the same airline at the boarding gate, with my luggage having to be taken off the plane, I think this is criminal. I received no compensation. On the last occasion,the house-sitter had left my keys in a prearranged place, and had departed on the Saturday evening, knowing I was due to land in Johannesburg at 5am on Sunday morning. I would then have been home by 8am Sunday, latest. I was unable to get hold of her, but in any event, she wouldn’t have been able to get into the house as she had closed the self locking door leaving my spare keys inside. My two dogs were locked in the house from 8pm Saturday night when the house-sitter left them after feeding them for the night – expecting me to arrive early on Sunday morning. Due to me being bumped and a further delay for my connecting flight, I only got home at 5pm on Monday. Distressing to say the least! I haven’t flown with that airline since and I hope I never will again. I wrote a full report of what happened to the airline customer services and never heard another thing, not even an apology. The lack of respect to passengers is appalling, treated like sheep with total disregard for the consequences of their despotic actions. I am sure other people have had worse outcomes than mine and it is horrible to know that you have no recourse or rights to dispute their decisions. Late bookings should be warned that they will be the first to be bumped if the flight is full – that is surely what ‘being on stand-by’ is for?
Sure..if he posed a security risk. They simply didn’t want to pay more to send the crew. Could they have? It is clear they didn’t hit the max in their offer…even according to United. Could they have flown the crew another way? It is Chicago…guessing they could have found a plane…even on another carrier. Forcible removal should only ever be exercised if the passenger has crossed the line. Saying no until they hit $1350 does not cross the line in my book. I think in the end there needs to be a top/down review of these policies at every airline and a much better explanation of the rules of travel for the passengers. If this incident creates that in the end…something good will come from it.
Very interesting take. Some facts not expressed in this article however is that United violated its own policy as it clearly didn’t randomly choose 4 passengers to exit off the plane. Unless you believe it was a coincidence that both he and his wife were picked. United also stated that it only picks individual flyers…keeping families together. Just read they originally agreed until they were told they couldn’t leave until the following day. As for doing what your told as the Pilot is a GOD on the plane…first off…the pilot gave no order of any kind here, this was a gate agent. And giving that level of power makes sense when the safety of the passengers is in question, but when a company simply wants to be cheap, pulling out the GOD card and dragging your paying customers off a plane is cravenly cheap and ultimately foolish in the long run. Saying they have this power is one thing, actually being stupid enough to exercise it in this kind of scenario is quite another.
I would have volunteered when they first asked. I always do, with a one-time exception: my dad was dying. Obeying crew member instructions is part of the safety demonstration on any and every flight. I think the passenger who was forcibly removed was an a**. He behaved childishly. He is a pulmonologist practicing on a restricted license; I doubt he had cases that required immediate attention, and I haven’t seen any news coverage about patients who were adversely affected by his not arriving in Louisville that night. If he had just left his seat when asked, he would not have sustained any injuries. I know this isn’t a popular stance, but it was my first reaction to the news and I am standing by it.
Apparently there were DOT laws in place that limit compensation that can be offered.
But whatever the reason, sometimes people have to be removed from a plane, and it’s never going to be pretty if they don’t want to go
Escalate it enough and the WILL be four people. $10,000? $50,000? Hell, all those numbers beat what happened to United’s stock plunge. I would HAPPILY give up my seat for 10K! We’re not talk if people can be bought out, just how much. United stupidly tried to cheap out.
What badger said below. Plus, @cmcginnis:disqus I’m pretty sure your readers (and the public) are much more interested in knowing that you have more empathy and common sense for your fellow travelers, versus your expertise in small prints legalese. Your very first paragraph set the tone for the rest of the article: one empathy, semi-sincer word for the traveler (“awful”) followed immediately by a paragraph worth of …let’s call it “justification”. Turned out, even the legalistic explanation is actually on shoddy ground – lots of current discussion on whether it was OK for UAL to kick a passenger already onboard based on overbooking, as well as the fact that it turned out… dang flight wasn’t overbooked afterall. If you need more time to gather the fact, then don’t editorialize.
Maybe, but these people just wanted to get home, and it’s always possible that they might all still say no after all $800 is a good deal and yet nobody wanted it
The problem for United now is that people will refuse to leave the plane knowing that United won’t force them
That would have delayed far more people than just the one who was delayed
Sure, but what is nobody takes the money, as in this case? At some point a passenger may have to be removed against his will, and there really is no way to achieve that other than to use force.
This was the last flight of the day on a Sunday night, so there was a lot less flexibility than otherwise.
I suspect that driving the crew would break the rules because the crew would be “on duty” the whole time and would exceed their flight limits
We are finding out they were not police but special airport security guards. So I don’t think they have the same authority as police.
Sorry but this is a game, if United is allowed to overbook, they should pay when bad things happen. First of all this Jeff Smisek was a crock, just look at why he isn’t the CEO anymore. Next United needs to go higher in compensation in some cases and Sunday night was one of them. $4,000 in vouchers is about $1,000 in real value, the cost to the airlines. Now if they had to pay in cash instead, then you would see overbooking not happening anymore.
Again overbooking is caused by business travelers booking at the last minute and spending a fortune for that ticket. So the airlines are making revenue off of this and if they get caught, gives out vouchers.
Hey this is going to cost United millions of dollars in lost revenue because people won’t fly United for the next couple of months. The person that was pulled off the flight, he could get tens of thousands of dollars, possibly more from United. I am hearing that United is paying $10,000 to the folks that have video’s to take them off of their facebook accounts. This is serious and because they were cheap, it will cost them a million times what it would of cost if they would of just given out a thousand to $1,500 in compensation to a couple of people.
Agree.. a much more positive solution which United should offer any day of the week in the “must get seats vacated” situation! Listen up, UNITED!
The law and contract allow the passenger to be denied boarding as long as the plane is still at the gate. However, if you disagree with his contract, there is always law: 49 U.S. Code § 46504 says you may not “interfere with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant”.
Agree.. sweeten the pot without going to force, I don’t care if they have to start auctioning off the seats… Something more creative and positive could have been done. If a doctor has dying patients waiting to see him for surgery first thing Monday morning….. then maybe a student or school teacher could stay behind.
You asked for suggestions. Here you go. In a case like this, I would suggest you could do better by recognizing that doing anything more than simply presenting facts (to the extent they can be known) could cause some of your readers to infer that your editorial comments are biased because of your economic connection to United. You appeared to try to present facts as accurately as possible but also editorialized. Personally, it was the editorializing that concerned me. Your facts were presented as accurately as possible and then updated as more was known. Would have been best to try to stick to the facts in this case and skip the editorializing.
What lawsuit? He refused a police order. If anything, I’d send him the bill to clean the seats.
Last CEO of United, Jeff Smisek, put a stop to these lavish offers, in the belief it cost them revenues. Most offers are now set at a limit of $800, but I’m told there was a recent offer max of $1350. This is gonna cost United a lot more than the $800 they were willing to part with.
Thanks for sticking with me after all these years! Appreciate it. I do think that the way United handled this situation was appalling and shocking. Many things could have been done differently on both sides. How would you suggest I do better?
This. This is what I’ve been saying. There were alternatives to having them on _that_ flight. They could have taken the American Airlines flight just a few minutes later, or could have chartered a plane for them (that would easily have been cheaper than the $6k or so (not counting the lawsuits now) that they paid to get those passengers off the plane ($1350 max compensation x 4 + hotel rooms for the night, since the next flight wasn’t until the following afternoon).
I certainly don’t believe that any passenger deserves to be handled in this manner. Sorry if it sounds that way.
sorry Chris I have to agree. You are in a tough spot, know that you don’t want to piss off United and lose possible access, ad money or whatever. It’s a tough job you have.
One thing that maybe somebody can help me on, did the captain ever get involved? I think it was the agents on the desk that made the decision and came on the flight to tell the unfortunate four of what was happening.
In all my reading not once did I hear the captain say that was the way it was.
The passenger ended up in the hospital.
I’ve been on lots of flights where someone needed to get bumped, and the gate agent offers escalating amounts of money/hotel vouchers/etc. for passengers to volunteer to get bumped. Some passengers really need to get to their destination right away; others don’t and are happy to be delayed for $800 and a hotel night. Sometimes less. United should have escalated the offers until four people voluntarily took a later flight, or until United decided that renting a car and driving the crew to Chicago was the best option for them.
The employees should have had to stay behind.
“My take: As abhorrent and sickening as this video is, passengers should know what they agree to when buying an airline tickets, including the possibility of getting bumped. They also should know that when onboard a plane, the captain has the final word– his or her word is the law. If he or she tells you to get off the plane, you obey.”
That may be the policy but as customers who pay huge sums of money to fly we don’t really have any choices. I would not have gotten off the plane to accommodate the airline’s mistake of overbooking and not planning on how they were going to transport their own employees. At a minimum they never should have boarded the flight until the situation was rectified. They may have the legal right to bump paying customers in response to their poor planning but that does not make it “right”.
it does come across that way — you sound like the UAL guy who said the passenger was “immature.”
I’m not sure how this comes across as me taking United’s side in this. To me, I’m taking the side of rules and regulations set up to govern what happens onboard planes.
I agree – shocking to see Chris taking United’s side on this. This blog seems like nothing more than smoke and mirror ads for the airlines now. The simple solution is that United should have kept offering compensation until someone volunteered. If it took to go up to $1K or higher, they should have done it. This story is now a national story everywhere. Hope United enjoys dealing with this.
Damn then just tell the people that they have a free company pass and they need it for a paying customer, that works better than saying a person is not dressed right. Bet not many people knew that yes the girls with the leggings were on a free pass. So by United taking them off saying this is the reason it’s insane the bad press they have gotten.
The point is that United doesn’t give a sh.t about people, they are just trying to get from day to day and make as much money as they can without even thinking of customer service and being nice to folks.
That is the problem everyone has with United, the way they handle things, even the CEO screwed up.
Just read this and you will understand why this has blown up.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/it-may-be-time-for-united-to-re-accommodate-ceo-oscar-munoz-commentary.html
Bet if they would of offered two free first class tickets to anywhere United flew you would of had a line of folks willing to give up there seats. Greed is wonderful when you need someone to do something.
If you’re flying for free on a company pass, and there’s a dress code for anyone flying on the pass, yes.
But what was the alternative. Without the threat of forcible removal then a demand for a passenger to leave the plane would have no effect. Everyone, when told, would just sit tight, like this guy did.
There has to be an outcome if you refuse an order and I don’t see what else it can be but forced removal. It also would not have been fair to the other 3 who were told to leave, and did so, if this guy was indulged.
Shame on you for taking United’s side in this. Also, United stock has fallen now that the video is all over the world, especially China, so United’s refusal to increase their offer to get a passenger to voluntarily take a later flight, or to just rent a car to drive their employees to their destination, has cost United’s shareholders (the people who, after all, own the company) hundreds of millions of dollars, approaching a billion dollars, in the value of their stock. Literally.
And security guards are not sworn peace officers and have no legal powers that ordinary civilians don’t have. They wear uniforms (really costumes) that look a lot like police uniforms, but they are not the police.
This incident is a new low for United. And your legalistic defense of United is a new low for this blog.
Overbooked (although, not really…) the flight, deciding to kick off a paying passenger to accommodate staff members (rather than increasing the enticement)…then, using gov’t security apparatus to to drag the customer off, in the process injured said passenger, …wait, seriously, some folks are actually defending the use of government security officers to settle what essentially is a business dispute? Glad that the majority of commenters are still thinking straight.
Chris, I’ve followed you since The Ticket days. You really can do better than this….you are showing your bias toward your corporate overlord if we are being honest here.
Moreover, were the passengers told the compensation they would receive for the involuntary bump? Where’s that side of the responsibility? The was so poorly handled that it got a person to a state of panic and it should never have gotten there. Contract of carriage my ass, that is a very one-way document and good luck being able to enforce it in its entirety in a court of law in a civil case.
Every element of this was handled incorrectly. To even contemplate forcible removal of a passenger on a plane full of people was ridiculously, contemptibly absurd. To drag a human being over arm rests and up an aisle full of other passengers exposed everybody near that passenger and on the aisles to potential injury or even exposure to blood.
Forcible ejection, when it got to that point, should have been handled professionally, were it warranted. It NEVER should have gotten to this point, ever. And then to use an inadequate number of security guards–I have no idea who the person identified as “another passenger” wearing jeans and what seemed to be a hoodie was–to remove a person involuntarily from a plane was ridiculous. The plane should have been deplaned, but at that point you are creating as much havoc for this plane full of passengers as you would the next flight in Louisville.
And then to not even be in control of the jetway to the extent the passenger, bloody, was able to get back on the plane? Unbelievable.
If United needed to get a crew to SDF they could have rented an SUV and DRIVEN them there; it’s generally under 5 hours between ORD and SDF on land. What a public relations disaster this will have been for United (which IMHO doesn’t need to give more people reasons to hate it.)
Chris, you’re only looking at protocol, and not decency, which was clearly violated here!! Even the captain is not God!! If someone was creating a violent incident, that’s an entirely different situation. He obviously wasn’t; he paid for his ticket and was allowed to board!! The violence was clearly created by law enforcement, and by United’s misguided policies!! The simple solution to this problem is to NOT allow “overbooking” in the first place. As a frequent flyer, I know as a fact, that “Stand By” passengers always provide the unfilled seats; there is no need for bumping.
If United needed to fly its crew to Louisville, they should have ‘chartered’ a flight to do so!!!! It’s
past time that passengers “rights” should be respected at long last! We pay enough to justify such treatment, and it’s the humane thing to do in the first place for goodness sake. Congress should, indeed, prohibit airlines from overbooking. I will, as a result of this action on United’s part,
start looking to other carriers when possible. I’m sure we haven’t heard the last on this story, and United will suffer enormously as a consequence of its action, and its CEO basically defending it
so erroneously; it’s laughable. Hope this passenger wins a ‘huge’ settlement against United!!!
So many views and all equally valid, but I would like to know the end story, did the passenger get back on the flight? Seems to me United should have not boarded the flight and do the involuntary bumps before loading. Oh well another corporate misfire….
So does that mean when you and I get on a United flight with say shorts that it’s ok for United to throw us off the flight because they deem it “inappropriate”???
From what I’ve been reading, United will be very unpopular in China.
The leggings story was a big story, and most people seemed to support United, including me. I’ve never been a United-basher, but I’m totally disgusted with them now.
Chris, the problem was caused by United. You’re making it sound like the passenger deserved the beat-down.
From what I’ve been reading about the reaction in China, I expect United to have lots of empty seats on their flights to and from China. Big seat sale in the near future!
Chris, sincere thanks for showcasing the incident in it’s own email to your subscribers. Most of your readers might not realize that you have shown courage by publishing something that is embarassing to someone (United) on whom you regularly rely on for access to news and information.
Therefore, I recognize that your “take” in support of United is simply a cover-your-ass action.
The only problem is that United has consistently had problems with screwing their best customers and doing things like this. The only reason this came out is because of the Iphone and people recorded it, if it wasn’t recorded there would not be a single word on this. Remember last week, United needed seats for a flight and kicked off some girls for wearing leggings which they deem “inappropriate” It was hardly mentioned that United did that.
United has a big problem on their hands because they are losing the confidence of flyers, I wish that I didn’t have to fly them.
They had ample time to either drive the four employees to Louisville for the flight the next day, or to charter a small private plane and fyl them there, at a lower cost and without disembarking and also delaying all the other passengers on the flight!
Nobody tried to make an alternate plan of how to get the four employees to Louisville – having just one procedure is ultimately a recipe for disaster.
This is an unfortunate story where one United employee made a very bad and wrong decision. It doesn’t necessarily make the entire airline or the other 80,000+ employees equally bad. Some employees will have a bad day at any given time (like the rest of us) and will make the wrong call. My point is that this can happen on any airline. That doesn’t excuse the incident, but I feel bad for the many employees who do a good job. I’ve flown a lot over the years with many airlines, and none of them are perfect, incidents happen and I’ve also been mad at United from time to time. But overall, I have less bad experiences with United than some of the other carriers.
My guess is that the guy didn’t have enough frequent flyer miles.
How do you know something was “wrong” with the passenger? He was bloodied but we don’t know how. It is obvious that something traumatic happened to him to be in such a state. It is possible that he had a concussion and caused him to be in that state.
Unacceptable on part of United/Republic and airport security.
The Chicago police statement is even worse.
Just because it’s legal to do something doesn’t mean that it is right, Chris.
I cannot believe the way you have worded your article. Did the captain ask him to leave? Or are you just adding that here to cast some doubt in your reader’s minds? Should we kneel, bow or curtsy to airline staff from now on?
On the face of it, this looks like a major corporation with excessive legal power playing the bully card.
At this stage all I can say is that I’m not flying United and not recommending United to anyone ever again.
Those employees had to get to SDF to take a flight out the next day. If they could not get there that flight would have to have been cancelled and all the pax would have been inconvenienced; put that against this one dude who claims he was a doctor. So yes I am quite OK with that.
Sure it wasn’t handled very well, but under the circumstances throwing that guy off was the right thing to do.
One more thing, United is still a mess. I fly it because I live and fly out of Dulles. But I wish that I could fly either Southwest, Virgin or Jet Blue more.
Hopefully this bad press will sting United into some action to be more friendly to customers, just like those three airlines I mentioned above. Nobody is perfect, but United has been bad for over a decade now.
Bob, the problem is that about 20% of the seats are really, really expensive. These are the seats that have no penalties if you don’t show up and that is the problem why they oversell flights. But I agree, they sell way too many and have to pay the reaper for oversold flights.
Frankly if I was congress or the FAA I would insist that payment be in cash, not vouchers. I bet any amount of money that if they had to pay over $400 in cash, they would be more careful in overselling flights.
So the problem is too many people accept these vouchers, yes for frequent flyers it’s almost like cash.
This is so simple it’s not even funny. Were they screwed up was to board the plane and then look for folks to volunter. Now in this case that would of meant people would have to stay in Chicago overnight, with no clothes and have to probably take a very, very early flight the next day. Who is going to tolerate that, even for $800 in ticket compensation. Funny last week I was on a flight from Dulles to Columbia on United, the flight left on that Sunday at 12:45. When I got to the gate they were asking for volunteers and offered $150. Now in this case the next flight out was 5:10 so the inconvenience was four hours. They didn’t board the flight and had announcements that compensation was $200, then $300. Then they went to $400 and two people stepped up. Then before boarding the plane, they said they needed one more person and offered $500. It was a perfect day at both cities and I did it. They even through in a $10 food voucher. Was it a pain, yes but I fly a lot for my own business so this meant a savings of $500. I was happy to do it, the next flight out went with no problems and I was 4 hours late, no big deal.
But they wouldn’t board the flight until they had someone. Frankly in this case I think United was wrong, they boarded customers and had people that didn’t want to get bumped. So frankly I think that they needed to up the compensation. You see to most of the people flying, compensation with a voucher in which has very little cost to United, is not what people want. I would say that half of the flight is folks that don’t fly much, the others really didn’t think it was worth it.
But I bet you if they announced that they would give out $800 cash, plus a hotel and flight in the morning, they would of gotten takers. Cash is king. The point is they should in tough cases like this forget the vouchers and just offer cash. No matter what the law is or legal stance on this, United is going to lose a lot of good will and I think this guy sues and gets thousands and thousands of dollars.
The point I am saying, United needs to give people something in this tough situation and I bet that they would of gotten four folks if it was $800, $1,000 cash. That’s a lot of money and frankly, would of saved United money anyways because nobody wins when you bump someone, it will cost United probably the max, $1,300 in compensation and that’s cash, not vouchers.
Sorry this was so long.
Republic airlines doesn’t fly 150 passenger airplanes. Aside from one SFO flight a day, IND is an United Express stop.
It wasn’t police, it was security guards..that’s what the Airport officers are in Chicago. They have ten weeks of training.
First of all; the security guards are only police in name only these people are security guards. They don’t carry firearms and if they come across a crime, they have to call for a regular Chicago Police Officer. Second, there was no crime committed here by the passenger. According to every report I’ve seen the Captain of this flight was not involved in this incident. I’m guessing that you added the Captain order to the passenger in your statement. United/Republic will end up paying out more, than just chartering a private jet for the wayward crew. As a supervisor in a major police department with airport responsibilities, there in no way in hell that I would allow my staff to forcibly remove a passenger for an such an issue. The issue hasn’t been answered, is why the four crew members showed up at the gate. Why, were they headed to IND after days off which they shouldn’t have been accommodated, or was their incoming flight was late.
Empathy isn’t required, but facts are. Very concerning when people are fine with this level of brutality. It screams of group think and sick foaming of the mouth as empty loons get their perverse fill of violence. It’s so sick…but so are rabid crowds. And I come from a law enforcement family, so don’t project your power lust into some legal analysis and love of control. This is completely inexcusable and not the intent of the law. Overbooking isn’t about overbooking for company employees. And my way or the highway isn’t what works in commerce. This is commerce and the private sector, not a government agency.
Chuck – do you understand that United was asking 4 paying customers to get off of the plane so that 4 United employees could get on the flight? Are you OK with that?
There was an American flight leaving shortly after this flight… And other options have been brought up in other articles — Uber would have been about $300 for this… or a one-way rental… This was truly one of those things where you have to weigh the pros and cons of each side of the decision. In this case, the cons that may not have been counted include severe social media backlash against United and a possible lawsuit by the doctor who was “roughed up” by the Security folks.
Seriously though, there’s a cash cost for IDB as well, especially if it wasn’t going to be until the next day… 4x the ticket cost (although it’s not clear if that’s ticket cost for the entire one-way journey or for just that one leg — I would hope that it’s the entire one-way journey)… and that is _cash_, not vouchers. And here’s where I have a problem with the pro-and-con piece. That 4x ticket cost for _4_ passengers could be over $5000. Would it seriously have cost them that much to go put 4 of their employees on the American Airlines flight? I seriously doubt it. This is where the cost accounting seriously goes haywire.
This was the last flight of the day and there may have been no other way to get the crew to Louisville. Not getting them on the flight may have inconvenienced 150 people trying to leave Louisville first thing the next morning.
Well, yeah. But it should be fairly easily verifiable whether or not he’s a doctor. 🙂
Either way here, United made a bad call. They should have just bought the bullet and paid for their crew to fly on the American flight…
How was the pilot an idiot? Pilots make the call to have people removed from flights daily. You think each of those decisions should go to the CEO for approval? I’m sure the pilot didn’t foresee this happening. He probably thought the guy was bluffing and would leave peacefully when the police showed up.
Not an oversold situation. I get the COC law. It is there for public safety. That is the purpose. No”Sea Lawyers” at 30,000 ft but this should have been handled prior to boarding and I can’t grasp how it got a plane loaded then someone decided “Oh look at this. We need to get a crew to Louisville”! Not sure about “the Doctor” but I would definitely get lawyers up in a civil trial rather than criminal. This is reduculius. United handles this in any way civil prior to boarding and it isn’t an issue. Maybe loud at the gate area but handled.
The only problem with allowing passengers to make excuses to not be the one picked for an involuntary bump is then anyone can make an excuse and the airline has no way to verify the excuse. Was this guy really a doctor headed to an important appointment? What if the next guy picked says he is headed to his Dad’s funeral? What if the next person says they have to get home because they have no one to watch their kids overnight? Everyone had an excuse to get home that night. Otherwise they would have taken the $800 and a free night in a Chicago hotel.
You are right I have no empathy for him. Zero. He was asked to go and he did not leave. Then the police showed up and asked him to go and he did not leave. I was taught if the police tell you to go you go unless you want to be arrested or forcibly removed. He didn’t move and he was removed.
I’m not so sure that the pax was a complete ass… we don’t have the whole situation here. If I, as a paying customer, was basically _told_ to get off the plane to accommodate a United employee because they needed to get them to another station, I’d ask for the reasoning behind selecting me. If I (as the doctor apparently did) had a good excuse as to why I had to be there today and not tomorrow, then I’d politely decline and tell them to find someone else to deplane. If they insisted that it had to be me, then I’d ask them to go get my vouchers ready and show them to me while I get my carryon and get ready to get off the plane. Granted, I’ve been law enforcement in the past, and know a fair bit about it… but still.
The overzealous “rent a cop” was put on leave by the Chicago PD for his part in the incident. The problem here, once again, is that we only have part of the story. We don’t have the complete story, and nobody seems to be willing to come out with that. United is only giving pieces, and I haven’t seen anything from the good doctor (well, maybe 🙂 ) himself yet…
How are you defending United here? If the passenger resorted to that much resistance, they should have picked another passenger randomly. Or up the compensation until someone volunteered. Awful stuff from United.
United certainly could have handled this better (by resolving the overbooking situation before boarding, or offering higher compensation until 4 people volunteered), but there is plenty of blame to go around here. Why isn’t anyone talking about the over-zealous rent-a-cop who handled the “doctor” so roughly? He wasn’t a United employee. I’m sure the United pilot didn’t request they beat the guy up in the process of removing him. And there’s no question the passenger was a complete ass and made the situation 10 times worse by not complying.
So, its clearly horrible. And as all us frequent fliers know – be nice, we’re all in it together. If someone from the airline tells you to get off the plane – get off the damn plane. Doesn’t matter rights or not. Now, someone in United’s Management needs to go – the people “doing the work”, gate agents, officers, Ops – this would not have happened without someone in management approving the action.
Several other issues:
1) The officers should have arrested the man first. Plenty of grounds, and there is no arguing resisting arrest, and the man has clearly violated an order to leave (or has he?). I’ve read nothing about the “orders” the passenger was given – and by whom. Why isn’t this the standard?
2) its not at all clear this was an Oversold flight. Yes, UA wanted to put crew on the flight – that does not mean this flight is “oversold”. If you have 100 seats, sell and put 100 passengers in those seats, and THEN decide you only have 96 seats for sale – so you can transport airline personnel – its not clear that is an oversold situation. Is also not clear who has what rights…
3) Very bad management decision to put people on the plane – already knowing you don’t have the seats. This decision failure – is what precipitated the escalation. If they *didn’t* known, then its even a worse decision. This – is a management failure.
4) There is something clearly wrong with this passenger – looks/sounds like a mental health issue of some kind. The staff of an airline deals with people all day every day – I would think they have appropriate training to identify personality traits and respond appropriately to de-escalate.
I was once on a Delta flight that was oversold and they could not get enough volunteers (last flight of the day). In the end we were sitting in the plane, and they STILL needed one seat. The gate chief came on board and offered $1000 (plus meals and hotel). I never saw people jump so quickly to volunteer….
Delta is MUCH better than United. See the Forbes article link at the top. Southwest is MUCH better than United. If you are in Chicago, no reason not to fly SWA.
they needed to fly there employees somewhere, so they inconvenienced the paying public. Great work United.
There is also a limit to the force that can be used to enforce certain laws. Here a guy is sitting in his seat. You do not have the right to drag him off. You cannot enforce a contract like this by force.
The key piece here that I find unacceptable is that the flight wasn’t actually overbooked. A United crew had to be in Louisville for a flight at the last minute and the airline’s desire to get them there trumped passengers’ needs. I understand it may disrupt another flight. But the gentleman’s need to see to his patients (or any passenger’s needs) should be given priority over the airline’s logistical needs. Surely they could have found another way to get that crew or another to Louisville.
How about the fact that United did not “oversell” the flight. They needed to get THEIR PEOPLE to L-Ville. They could have called NetJets, got someone on a SWA flight from Midway, brought in their own equipment, etc. No need to screw your customers and their patients the next day.
The practice of overbooking is a holdover from the days when no-shows could get refunds on tickets they didn’t use. It is my impression that today it almost always costs the passenger who cancels or doesn’t show up, so overbooking has become a questionable practice.
In this particular case, my guess is that United’s Operations didn’t figure out that they needed four seats for United flight crew members until fairly soon before the flight. I agree with others that (i) United should have upped the compensation for volunteers to take another flight and (ii) passengers who buy the lowest priced tickets should know that they will be the first to be bumped.
It’s sad if Congress does something about this. Delta and Southwest do not engage in nonsense like this. Perhaps just fine airlines that engaged in over-the-top nonsense like this.
Um, no, United NEVER does any of those things. They do the bare-bones minimum. And if you volunteer and the next flight is late (and the gate agent lies to you when you volunteer by telling you it leaves in an hour–and you later find out it has not even left its prior city that is 2 hrs away)–they refuse to compensate you.
I agree. Chris is correct that the Pilot is the “authority,” but in this case he greatly exceeded his authority for the reasons you mentioned. And the fact that “escorting a bumped” passenger using force did not apparently need a call higher up the chain of command is absurd. United has THE WORST customer service, and this is just another example.
But glad to see that their CEO stands behind his idiot employees.
Well, for the people that read every word of their cell phone software update, that’s very realistic. In my prior career as a travel agent, though, I never once saw a person who actually read the COC, despite it being stapled to every ticket. Domestic airlines have an awful reputation for doing just about anything possible to avoid paying out real money. If they had either chosen or were forced to publicly announce the rules, then offer $1000 cash plus hotel, etc., this situation would likely never have happened.
“….JetBlue and Virgin, both of whom do not overbook.”
Not true. I was on a VX flight from SFO-SAN this past Friday and they were offering $800 in travel credit to fly on a later departure, due to overbooking.
…..
Half the plane decided to leave as a show of support for this victim.
US law doesn’t let you resort to violence in a contractual dispute. Not even after a court has rendered a decision that you are right. What United did was to say that they were right and then bluster their way to have the authorities exceed their legal limits and commit bodily injury on a 69 year old man. The fact that you have a rental car contract for a SUV and they gave you a subcompact doesn’t give you the right to beat up the clerk at the counter. For United to do this to a customer … is inexcusable. Look how Delta handled a similar situation: https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2017/04/09/why-delta-air-lines-paid-me-11000-not-to-fly-to-florida-this-weekend/#175c54c44de1
Uh…Chuck…this is a private company, not the government. This isn’t a law or rule.
Well wow…not only are you full of empathy, you’re wrong. United picked these people randomly. This wasn’t about upgrade status….and buying on sale doesn’t mean you deserve disrespect. Wow…just wow.
Oh it’s legal so bloody the man? This is the sick creep of rationalization from corporate zombies. Here is how that “contract of carriage” got made, as well as other “laws”: Big airlines and Big K Street lobbyists closed the deal…with Big Money. So we’re animals in a tube until the law changes or we vote with our feet, or both. The airline industry has become the hallmark of burnout and rudeness and the airline contemptuously treats their passengers like objects….and they’re fine with it…because the fine print says so….so human decency loses to small font fine print. These bastards truly don’t care…and the fact they did it to put on their employees rests the case. Anyone who justifies this with a contract needs to really think if bad law is ok….ugh….I hate these airlines. They’re all oligopolistic bullies. This was just an extreme example of who they are.
1) If this passenger were black or Latino or Muslim or (perhaps) a white woman, there would be riots in the street, politicians calling for United to be grounded, and demonstrations on the runways, but “nobody” cares about your random Asian male homeless person (oops, I meant “physician.”
2) Aircraft pilots are not GOD and do not have unlimited powers; they can be sued and jailed just like anybody else for crimes
3) Eff United and their jive-ass CEO. Not even the courtesy of a lame pro forma apology
4) Nothing good ever happens in Chicago
Was the situation handled correctly? Probably not. That said, this happens on a regular basis and you never hear about it. Why? Because most people understand that shit happens. This entitled “Doctor” thought he had the right to be on that plane – he didn’t. They can deny anyone for any reason. And this was a legit business reason. Sorry dude, it sucks, but you do what the Captain says. And having been a manager for United for many years, usually they take care of you nicely when this happens. As in put you up, rebook you, refund your ticket, AND give you a voucher for future travel, because they understand it does suck.
The moment before you click “buy” but never read the Contract of Carriage.
IMHO this was a fail on behalf of United, despite the carrier acting within the contract of carriage. United had options – chiefly raising the “buyout price” beyond $800 credit to encourage someone to voluntarily get off. This doctor did NOT have options as he had patients to see the following morning. Subsequently the CEO added insult to injury. I foresee changes – Congress is already looking into this and may act if airlines do not. The result will be higher prices but more reliable travel.
When is United required to inform the passenger of their involuntary boarding rights? Before or after they drag you off the plane?
Well, the problem there are only few major players in airline industry. If you boycott United, who will you fly? American and Delta are not much nicer than United. Airlines know this fact and hence, they don’t care much.
United handled it correctly and the passenger did not like being the one pulled. You buy the cheapest fare you will be the first one to get the bounce because it will hit them the hardest. I have understood that relationship for years. It is a business 101 principle. I applaud United for this and the passenger is one to blame for this. Yeah we all have stuff to do but if you do not comply you will not fly. I have always been amazed at those with the cheapest fares are always the ones to bitch the loudest…
Right on Jack!
This is pretty outrageous, even for United. I think everyone should rethink travel on United after this!
Right on Steve!
This is pretty outrageous, even for United. I think everyone should rethink travel on United after this!
The free market will decide and I hope it decides in favor of passengers. Add United to Frontier and Spirit as airlines I will personally never fly.
In this case, it doesn’t matter what the rights of the airline are. United could have a policy like JetBlue and Virgin, both of whom do not overbook. If United didn’t charge a $200 fee to cancel a seat that a passenger knows in advance that they won’t need, overbooking wouldn’t even be necessary. There have been plenty of times I’ve had $150 tickets in hand, my schedule changes, and I don’t bother calling to cancel because there’s nothing in it for me to do so.
Plus, the fact that four people weren’t interested in giving up their seats means that not enough incentive was offered. I bet that $5000 in travel vouchers per passenger would have gotten the volunteers needed and would have been much cheaper than the damage in publicity United will suffer from this
Are you serious? When was the last time you read a contract of carriage, word for word (without falling asleep) and understood every word? These COCs are written by airline attorneys and totally benefit the airline. What you have overlooked is that the doctor was due compensation at 4 x the ticket cost per 14 CFR 250.5 which United wasn’t willing to comply with. How about doing a blog on passenger rights in simple English for us non-attorney types?
Stop with the whole “contract of carriage” thing. Nobody has read it, and nobody cares. It’s archaic and simply provides a long list of excuses. Pro-tip for United: don’t overbook, and then you won’t have a public relations nightmare.
Lost all of my future business for sure. #boycottUnitedAirlines